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marchmetamatterschallenge2020-01-14 02:59 pm
yourlibrarian) wrote in marchmetamatterschallenge2020-01-14 02:59 pm
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Admin Post: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
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This document will be added to as questions come in from participants. Please leave comments here if there are topics you need more information on or if you have suggestions for the existing entries.
Topic List
What counts as meta?
Should I choose AO3 or SquidgeWorld?
Could I post a conversation which I participated in?
What if it's not just text?
How do I open an AO3 or SquidgeWorldaccount?
How do I transfer work to AO3 or SquidgeWorld?
What dates should I use for my posts?
What about posts I link to and privacy issues?
How do I tag my meta on AO3?
AO3 Collection questions
What counts as meta?
The TLDR version is -- if you're wondering if it's meta, include it.
Meta can be described by both intention and scope. Our scope for this challenge is as broad as can be. Whether it's about fandom as a whole, a particular fandom, a particular event, a particular canon, a particular episode or aspect of something, it all counts. Fandom talking about itself or its interests in a thoughtful way is the best description we can come up with. When it comes to intention, pretty much anything that isn't fictional or conversation would count. Meta can be very long (even a series!) or it could be just a few paragraphs.
Should I choose AO3 or Squidgeworld?
The AO3 has some details of what it considers nonfiction fannish work including meta and more, such as "discussions of fannish tropes, essays designed to entice other people into a fandom, commentary on fandoms, hypothetical casting for alternate versions of works, documentaries, podcasts about fandom, explanations of the creative process behind a fanwork or works, tutorials for creating fanworks, guides for fan-created gaming campaigns, or many other things."
All of these are supposed to be welcome at the site, however reviews are not, and according to their internal policies, meta about fandom and fannish activities are more likely to be considered acceptable than works about a canon.
Some content AO3 specifically excludes is ephemeral content, the interpretation of which unfortunately might cover a wide swath of content that many could reasonably argue do not at all resemble social media content, live blogging or squee posts. As a result, participants may want to be careful posting such content there since having such content reported and taken down more than twice will lead to your entire account being deleted.
(For reference, other non-meta works they ban are:
"episode transcripts and other non-transformative fandom material;
primarily autobiographical or non-fandom-related essays (e.g., essays on bike lanes, even if they contain a single reference to a fannish source)
By contrast SquidgeWorld.org has been very accepting of a wide variety of meta content, including reviews and shorter style content. If in doubt, it is best to back up content there instead.
Also, please note that references in this doc or elsewhere to AO3 are generally equally applicable to Squidgeworld as they operate on the same code and with identical interfaces.
Could I post a conversation which I participated in?
While there are many fascinating conversations that have taken place in fandom spaces, they largely aren't practical to include in this challenge, both because of structural challenges and because of the difficulty in verifying the consent of everyone involved. However, an individual who didn't just throw out some ideas for conversation but spent some time writing a considered reply has written meta, which might be appropriate to post in stand-alone form for this challenge. (Interviews and Tumblr ask responses can be considered meta).
What if it's not just text?
Meta posts can consist of various things besides text -- statistics and tables, infographics, images and screen captures, audio, etc. There has been many a gifset that has made an argument or was intentionally created as meta! We encourage preserving all these as well.
Unfortunately at this time neither AO3 does not offer native hosting for anything besides text. Squidgeworld does, however, offer hosting for fandom content at Squidge.org. Other solutions would involve using a commercial service (which may always subject to change). So we suggest copying over the contents and using hotlinks to the places where those images are currently hosted.
If the meta posts have already lost their images because the original host is gone or has new restrictions, it is still valuable to have placeholders made for them at AO3 or Squidgeworld, even with broken links, as long as the post included text along with the images. And if you have time later in the year to find a new host for those images, the posts can be restored in full to their original and new homes.
How do I open an AO3 or Squidgeworld account?
Go to https://archiveofourown.org/signup or https://squidgeworld.org/signup Once you've entered your email you should receive an account link within 24-48 hours. If two days have passed and you have not yet received an email, make sure it isn't in your spam folder or you didn't put it in your trash by accident. If it isn't there, leave a comment here notifying the March Meta Matters mod who can look into it for you.
How do I transfer work to AO3 or Squidgeworld?
Once you're logged in, up on the top right of each archive's page is a "Post" link.
Posters have two options -- copying a work over into the New Work form, or importing it via URL from another site. You may want to test out the import feature with one or two URLs and see what you think of the result (which can be edited). Some people find it easier to just copy and paste rather than to spend time fixing formatting. Others have few format issues and find it much faster to import. (There are reports though that if one is trying to import more than 10 posts at a time, the imports may fail, so it's probably best to do this in small batches).
If your post includes images it will be useful to add image descriptions underneath them. This both helps people who can't see them as well as preserves a record of what the image was should your host site break that link. If the paragraph below it is examining the image (for example, as part of a cinematography discussion) then a brief caption such as "Scene of Rey meeting BB8" should suffice.
If your image is a screenshot of, say, an Excel table or a list, and those details are critical to your discussion (as opposed to simply being a visual example) consider creating an HTML table format for embedding the information instead of an image. That way you don't have to worry about losing the image or having to write a long separate caption.
If you have formatting or other technical problems with your posts, you are encouraged to detail them on the latest post at the March Meta Matters community on Dreamwidth. If no one is able to offer suggestions, you should contact AO3 Support for help.
What dates should I use for my posts?
Except for new meta we write during March, all of us will be copying over older works. There are two options for dating them:
1) Allow the post date to be the day the meta was added to the site. Meanwhile, the original date can be mentioned in the Author's Notes. In the Preface section, the second block in the posting form, you can ticky the Author's Notes box and add something like "Originally posted to [Site] on [Date]." You might even want to add more context such as what the meta was written in response to, if anything.
2) Make the post match the original posting date. This can be done in the Associations block, third in the posting form. The last ticky box says "Set a different publication date." Click that and you can enter the original release date for your meta.
Don't hesitate to record an older date. Unlike social media platforms, AO3's platform doesn't operate as chronologically, and a new post will still show up in feeds for that fandom. It might even be of more interest to people to read someone's thoughts about, say, an evergreen fandom topic pondered 20 years ago, or to find out what fans thought about a canon development at the time it first happened. Having the dates at hand will provide more context for your readers.
How do I tag my meta on AO3/Squidgeworld?
Tagging is very important on these sites so that people can find your work (and also so people can filter out works they're not interested in). It is particularly critical for sorting out meta posts which are a small fraction of the works there.
The tagging section comes up first in the posting form. Some suggestions:
Rating: Rate your meta as you would any other work. Chances are most meta falls under "General Audiences" or "Teen and Up." But since people filter based on rating, it's best not to leave your work "Not Rated."
Archive Warnings: Similarly, it's best to select "No Archive Warnings Apply" (if that is the case) rather than "Choose Not To Use Archive Warnings". Chances are that most meta will fall into "No Archive Warnings Apply." Even if, say, a meta piece focuses on character deaths, it may depend on whether someone is talking about the issue generally (such as the way they're employed in canon) or if they're examining a specific character death (which people may be more sensitive to and wish to avoid).
Fandoms: While people are free to make up whatever tags they want for AO3 content, it's the tags that show up in the autocomplete that are able to be used in search filtering. So make sure that the fandom name you are using is one that shows up in this field. Even if your post focuses on 4 or 5 fandoms it's worth tagging each one.
"Multi-Fandom" is available for either many fandoms or a more general fandom essay that applies to whole genres or formats of fandom. "No Fandom" is another tag used for content that is not specific to any particular fandom (a tutorial post, for example). "Fandom - Fandom" can be used for posts about being a fan of fandom.
If your fandom has no tag listed in the autocomplete, come up with the most standard name it has. Especially on Squidgeworld, this may become canonized within days and will likely follow whatever you have entered.
Categories: If you are writing about a ship or about categories of shipping (femslash, het, etc.) it is worth ticking those categories. Otherwise it's best to use the "Gen" category.
Relationships: This field should be used for any meta about particular ships. If it's about shipping generally, use the "Shipping" tag in the Additional Tags field below.
Characters: Definitely tag characters if they are a prime focus of your meta work (if there aren't any, skip this field). Make sure the tag autocompletes and that you pick the one specific to your fandom. As of this writing, for example, there are 15 choices for "Spike" on AO3. If you are creating a tag on Squidgeworld, be sure to disambiguate your character name (i.e. Character Name (Fandom) )
Additional Tags: This field is critical to finding meta work. All entries should include the following tag: "Nonfiction"
The general term "Meta" is the main term even though it mixes fiction and non-fiction content. That is why it's important to include the "Nonfiction" tag so that people can filter out fiction content. You can also add the term "Meta Essay" to clarify for people browsing what kind of content it is.
Other canonical tags may be relevant depending on the content of your posts. Most of these are the same at either AO3 or Squidgeworld but AO3 has many more terms in use.
"Fanwork Research & Reference Guides"
"Essays" (for more formal or academic style text work)
"Episode Review"
"Commentary"
"Fanwork of Fanwork"
"Tutorial"
"Maps"
"Guide"
"Interview"
"fannish history"
"Review" (for reviews other than for TV episodes)
"Headcanon"
Additional Warnings: These should be added in the Additional Tag fields for any sensitive topics you think viewers may want to be warned for.
Topic Specific tags: Meta content can be so varied that only a few examples will be used here. One tip though is that if the term you first think of doesn't autocomplete, consider trying a few more to see if any of them do.
"Fans"
"Fanservice"
"Inspired by Fanart"
"Tropes"
Individual episodes: At AO3/Squidgeworld these follow the format of season then episode, then episode name. For some fandoms there is no specific episode name so the general can be used (i.e., "Episode: s01e03"). Remember that there must be 2 digits used (i.e. s02 not s2). Many episodes will autocomplete for you. If they don't, don't hesitate to create your own. If you use the standard format: (i.e., Episode: s05e10 First Contact) it will likely soon show up in the autocomplete!
Location collection tags:
As was suggested by Inu on Tumblr, people may one day wish to search on things that were originally hosted at a particular site (especially if it no longer exists).
So while it's entirely voluntary, options might be "Cross-Posted on (site)" or "Archived From [blog name] Blog."
What about posts I link to?
Meta may include links to other sources you are using as examples, reacting to, or referring to and those may also go away. But it is also important for participants to consider the privacy concerns of others referenced in your work by name. It is considered unacceptable in fandom circles to quote any content that was included in a locked post or account since this clearly violates the desire for privacy by the poster. An additional option to consider is whether it might be helpful to lock the post to logged-in AO3 users only, which means it will not turn up in Internet searches or by users without accounts. (This option can be found in the Privacy section of the posting form).
The MMM Challenge is focused on individuals archiving their own works, which is one reason why conversations are not included. However meta may also link to a variety of content, such as stories in the news, canon content, posts on independent blogs, comments by creators, etc. If you want to create a stable link to those pages, you can link to them and then run the posts through the Wayback Machine. There is a "Save Page Now" option (best for single pages) and if you have multiple pages you can send the URLs through email.
AO3 Collection questions
To place your works in the Meta Matters collection, simply add the following when you are uploading your work. In the third section of the posting form, "Associations", the first line asks "Post to Collections / Challenges." Simply enter "March Meta Matters Challenge." It could be you'll see a "March Meta Matters Fest" that shows up in autocomplete on the AO3 form but then says there’s no collection. But if you type in "March Meta Matters Challenge" in the form, it will show up. (This is apparently a bug).
There's also no need to make special reference to the MMM Challenge in your Author notes or otherwise unless you want to. When a work is placed into a collection, this status automatically appears in the work's header information.
Adding a work to a collection simply copies a link to your work over to that collection. There is no way to post a work directly into a collection at AO3, the work always resides within your personal account. So while you can place your work within however many collections you like, it never "goes" anywhere.
Topic List
What counts as meta?
Should I choose AO3 or SquidgeWorld?
Could I post a conversation which I participated in?
What if it's not just text?
How do I open an AO3 or SquidgeWorldaccount?
How do I transfer work to AO3 or SquidgeWorld?
What dates should I use for my posts?
What about posts I link to and privacy issues?
How do I tag my meta on AO3?
AO3 Collection questions
What counts as meta?
The TLDR version is -- if you're wondering if it's meta, include it.
Meta can be described by both intention and scope. Our scope for this challenge is as broad as can be. Whether it's about fandom as a whole, a particular fandom, a particular event, a particular canon, a particular episode or aspect of something, it all counts. Fandom talking about itself or its interests in a thoughtful way is the best description we can come up with. When it comes to intention, pretty much anything that isn't fictional or conversation would count. Meta can be very long (even a series!) or it could be just a few paragraphs.
Should I choose AO3 or Squidgeworld?
The AO3 has some details of what it considers nonfiction fannish work including meta and more, such as "discussions of fannish tropes, essays designed to entice other people into a fandom, commentary on fandoms, hypothetical casting for alternate versions of works, documentaries, podcasts about fandom, explanations of the creative process behind a fanwork or works, tutorials for creating fanworks, guides for fan-created gaming campaigns, or many other things."
All of these are supposed to be welcome at the site, however reviews are not, and according to their internal policies, meta about fandom and fannish activities are more likely to be considered acceptable than works about a canon.
Some content AO3 specifically excludes is ephemeral content, the interpretation of which unfortunately might cover a wide swath of content that many could reasonably argue do not at all resemble social media content, live blogging or squee posts. As a result, participants may want to be careful posting such content there since having such content reported and taken down more than twice will lead to your entire account being deleted.
(For reference, other non-meta works they ban are:
"episode transcripts and other non-transformative fandom material;
primarily autobiographical or non-fandom-related essays (e.g., essays on bike lanes, even if they contain a single reference to a fannish source)
By contrast SquidgeWorld.org has been very accepting of a wide variety of meta content, including reviews and shorter style content. If in doubt, it is best to back up content there instead.
Also, please note that references in this doc or elsewhere to AO3 are generally equally applicable to Squidgeworld as they operate on the same code and with identical interfaces.
Could I post a conversation which I participated in?
While there are many fascinating conversations that have taken place in fandom spaces, they largely aren't practical to include in this challenge, both because of structural challenges and because of the difficulty in verifying the consent of everyone involved. However, an individual who didn't just throw out some ideas for conversation but spent some time writing a considered reply has written meta, which might be appropriate to post in stand-alone form for this challenge. (Interviews and Tumblr ask responses can be considered meta).
What if it's not just text?
Meta posts can consist of various things besides text -- statistics and tables, infographics, images and screen captures, audio, etc. There has been many a gifset that has made an argument or was intentionally created as meta! We encourage preserving all these as well.
Unfortunately at this time neither AO3 does not offer native hosting for anything besides text. Squidgeworld does, however, offer hosting for fandom content at Squidge.org. Other solutions would involve using a commercial service (which may always subject to change). So we suggest copying over the contents and using hotlinks to the places where those images are currently hosted.
If the meta posts have already lost their images because the original host is gone or has new restrictions, it is still valuable to have placeholders made for them at AO3 or Squidgeworld, even with broken links, as long as the post included text along with the images. And if you have time later in the year to find a new host for those images, the posts can be restored in full to their original and new homes.
How do I open an AO3 or Squidgeworld account?
Go to https://archiveofourown.org/signup or https://squidgeworld.org/signup Once you've entered your email you should receive an account link within 24-48 hours. If two days have passed and you have not yet received an email, make sure it isn't in your spam folder or you didn't put it in your trash by accident. If it isn't there, leave a comment here notifying the March Meta Matters mod who can look into it for you.
How do I transfer work to AO3 or Squidgeworld?
Once you're logged in, up on the top right of each archive's page is a "Post" link.
Posters have two options -- copying a work over into the New Work form, or importing it via URL from another site. You may want to test out the import feature with one or two URLs and see what you think of the result (which can be edited). Some people find it easier to just copy and paste rather than to spend time fixing formatting. Others have few format issues and find it much faster to import. (There are reports though that if one is trying to import more than 10 posts at a time, the imports may fail, so it's probably best to do this in small batches).
If your post includes images it will be useful to add image descriptions underneath them. This both helps people who can't see them as well as preserves a record of what the image was should your host site break that link. If the paragraph below it is examining the image (for example, as part of a cinematography discussion) then a brief caption such as "Scene of Rey meeting BB8" should suffice.
If your image is a screenshot of, say, an Excel table or a list, and those details are critical to your discussion (as opposed to simply being a visual example) consider creating an HTML table format for embedding the information instead of an image. That way you don't have to worry about losing the image or having to write a long separate caption.
If you have formatting or other technical problems with your posts, you are encouraged to detail them on the latest post at the March Meta Matters community on Dreamwidth. If no one is able to offer suggestions, you should contact AO3 Support for help.
What dates should I use for my posts?
Except for new meta we write during March, all of us will be copying over older works. There are two options for dating them:
1) Allow the post date to be the day the meta was added to the site. Meanwhile, the original date can be mentioned in the Author's Notes. In the Preface section, the second block in the posting form, you can ticky the Author's Notes box and add something like "Originally posted to [Site] on [Date]." You might even want to add more context such as what the meta was written in response to, if anything.
2) Make the post match the original posting date. This can be done in the Associations block, third in the posting form. The last ticky box says "Set a different publication date." Click that and you can enter the original release date for your meta.
Don't hesitate to record an older date. Unlike social media platforms, AO3's platform doesn't operate as chronologically, and a new post will still show up in feeds for that fandom. It might even be of more interest to people to read someone's thoughts about, say, an evergreen fandom topic pondered 20 years ago, or to find out what fans thought about a canon development at the time it first happened. Having the dates at hand will provide more context for your readers.
How do I tag my meta on AO3/Squidgeworld?
Tagging is very important on these sites so that people can find your work (and also so people can filter out works they're not interested in). It is particularly critical for sorting out meta posts which are a small fraction of the works there.
The tagging section comes up first in the posting form. Some suggestions:
Rating: Rate your meta as you would any other work. Chances are most meta falls under "General Audiences" or "Teen and Up." But since people filter based on rating, it's best not to leave your work "Not Rated."
Archive Warnings: Similarly, it's best to select "No Archive Warnings Apply" (if that is the case) rather than "Choose Not To Use Archive Warnings". Chances are that most meta will fall into "No Archive Warnings Apply." Even if, say, a meta piece focuses on character deaths, it may depend on whether someone is talking about the issue generally (such as the way they're employed in canon) or if they're examining a specific character death (which people may be more sensitive to and wish to avoid).
Fandoms: While people are free to make up whatever tags they want for AO3 content, it's the tags that show up in the autocomplete that are able to be used in search filtering. So make sure that the fandom name you are using is one that shows up in this field. Even if your post focuses on 4 or 5 fandoms it's worth tagging each one.
"Multi-Fandom" is available for either many fandoms or a more general fandom essay that applies to whole genres or formats of fandom. "No Fandom" is another tag used for content that is not specific to any particular fandom (a tutorial post, for example). "Fandom - Fandom" can be used for posts about being a fan of fandom.
If your fandom has no tag listed in the autocomplete, come up with the most standard name it has. Especially on Squidgeworld, this may become canonized within days and will likely follow whatever you have entered.
Categories: If you are writing about a ship or about categories of shipping (femslash, het, etc.) it is worth ticking those categories. Otherwise it's best to use the "Gen" category.
Relationships: This field should be used for any meta about particular ships. If it's about shipping generally, use the "Shipping" tag in the Additional Tags field below.
Characters: Definitely tag characters if they are a prime focus of your meta work (if there aren't any, skip this field). Make sure the tag autocompletes and that you pick the one specific to your fandom. As of this writing, for example, there are 15 choices for "Spike" on AO3. If you are creating a tag on Squidgeworld, be sure to disambiguate your character name (i.e. Character Name (Fandom) )
Additional Tags: This field is critical to finding meta work. All entries should include the following tag: "Nonfiction"
The general term "Meta" is the main term even though it mixes fiction and non-fiction content. That is why it's important to include the "Nonfiction" tag so that people can filter out fiction content. You can also add the term "Meta Essay" to clarify for people browsing what kind of content it is.
Other canonical tags may be relevant depending on the content of your posts. Most of these are the same at either AO3 or Squidgeworld but AO3 has many more terms in use.
"Fanwork Research & Reference Guides"
"Essays" (for more formal or academic style text work)
"Episode Review"
"Commentary"
"Fanwork of Fanwork"
"Tutorial"
"Maps"
"Guide"
"Interview"
"fannish history"
"Review" (for reviews other than for TV episodes)
"Headcanon"
Additional Warnings: These should be added in the Additional Tag fields for any sensitive topics you think viewers may want to be warned for.
Topic Specific tags: Meta content can be so varied that only a few examples will be used here. One tip though is that if the term you first think of doesn't autocomplete, consider trying a few more to see if any of them do.
"Fans"
"Fanservice"
"Inspired by Fanart"
"Tropes"
Individual episodes: At AO3/Squidgeworld these follow the format of season then episode, then episode name. For some fandoms there is no specific episode name so the general can be used (i.e., "Episode: s01e03"). Remember that there must be 2 digits used (i.e. s02 not s2). Many episodes will autocomplete for you. If they don't, don't hesitate to create your own. If you use the standard format: (i.e., Episode: s05e10 First Contact) it will likely soon show up in the autocomplete!
Location collection tags:
As was suggested by Inu on Tumblr, people may one day wish to search on things that were originally hosted at a particular site (especially if it no longer exists).
So while it's entirely voluntary, options might be "Cross-Posted on (site)" or "Archived From [blog name] Blog."
What about posts I link to?
Meta may include links to other sources you are using as examples, reacting to, or referring to and those may also go away. But it is also important for participants to consider the privacy concerns of others referenced in your work by name. It is considered unacceptable in fandom circles to quote any content that was included in a locked post or account since this clearly violates the desire for privacy by the poster. An additional option to consider is whether it might be helpful to lock the post to logged-in AO3 users only, which means it will not turn up in Internet searches or by users without accounts. (This option can be found in the Privacy section of the posting form).
The MMM Challenge is focused on individuals archiving their own works, which is one reason why conversations are not included. However meta may also link to a variety of content, such as stories in the news, canon content, posts on independent blogs, comments by creators, etc. If you want to create a stable link to those pages, you can link to them and then run the posts through the Wayback Machine. There is a "Save Page Now" option (best for single pages) and if you have multiple pages you can send the URLs through email.
AO3 Collection questions
To place your works in the Meta Matters collection, simply add the following when you are uploading your work. In the third section of the posting form, "Associations", the first line asks "Post to Collections / Challenges." Simply enter "March Meta Matters Challenge." It could be you'll see a "March Meta Matters Fest" that shows up in autocomplete on the AO3 form but then says there’s no collection. But if you type in "March Meta Matters Challenge" in the form, it will show up. (This is apparently a bug).
There's also no need to make special reference to the MMM Challenge in your Author notes or otherwise unless you want to. When a work is placed into a collection, this status automatically appears in the work's header information.
Adding a work to a collection simply copies a link to your work over to that collection. There is no way to post a work directly into a collection at AO3, the work always resides within your personal account. So while you can place your work within however many collections you like, it never "goes" anywhere.
Return to the Topics List.
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And yes, I really do have over 1000 pages of meta - in my journal and on various sites that have long since become inactive or might still be...however it is unlikely. I didn't know you could post meta to Archive of Our Own, I thought it was just a fanfic site.
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…Does anyone know if there's a way to track down everything I'm not the OP of that I added content when reblogging? Bonus points if I can restrict that to reblogs with a specific tag.
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There is Save Page Now (best for single pages)
and if you have multiple pages you can send the URLs through email.
https://blog.archive.org/2019/10/23/the-wayback-machines-save-page-now-is-new-and-improved/
The Wayback Machine will not save
1. private/locked posts
2. Posts that have an age pop up warning
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I think it would be at the very least polite to ask people if they want to be immortalised by links from this project, especially for stuff posted to personal journals some time ago.
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(Anonymous) 2020-01-27 04:41 am (UTC)(link)Meta about the canon/TV shows is fine. Just be certain every word you write is your own.
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(For context, there has been controversy over fanlore's choices around quoting posts without context, and saving them via wayback so that the OP has no option to lock them if they want to opt out of the archiving project.)
Who knows, maybe the original poster would like to be part of the project. My idea with this comment is to cut down on hurt feelings and potential wank.
However, I will say, that I find the following a bit odd:
Got away with what? That's how fandom conversation works. Yes, I'd like to cut down on wank, and yes I currently try to say "do you mind if I link," but on the whole people aren't just responding to canon, they're also at least in part responding to each other. That's what fandom is.
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Some of the older meta posts start: "Over here, XXX says (link). Here is why I agree/disagree"
Should those not be posted to AO3 unless we contact people linked in the original post for permission? (""Hey just to let you know, I am copying and pasting my 12 year old meta to AO3. In it I mention you/link to your post, please let me know if that is OK. If not, I will not copy and paste my own meta to AO3.")
I guess authors can always edit their meta to remove any old links. And authors can remove any other references in their original meta that might refer to other persons Ex: "Morgan Dawn wrote: XXX" Could be edited to say: "A fan wrote XXX" So less wank that way.
Personally I'd leave this all up to the original authors of the meta and not try to impose prescriptive directions. Let them (the authors of the meta) be responsible for their own choices.* After all, that is what AO3 is about.
*Although suggestions on how to reduce wank are always wise - so for those who don't feel comfortable approaching others/cannot reach them for permission and you are worried about incurring wank with your 10 year old meta... consider editing out links. Or if you once quoted someone, consider removing names etc.
no subject
Example. Ten years ago, Sally posts a hot take about Star Wars fandom. I respond with my own hot take on her post, and link back to Sally's post. We all have a nice long wank about it because it's Star Wars fandom, and it's just always gonna be wanky.
Ten years go by, both my post and Sally's are still unlocked, but no one's looked at them in years. Now I want to post what I thought were some pretty good Star Wars thoughts to AO3 as part of the meta project, but my post is in conversation with Sally's. Do I a) edit in context and leave Sally out of it, but without quoting her directly either, b) link back to Sally's original post, c) link back to a wayback copy of Sally's original post?
If I link back to Sally, I have a reasonable to good chance of stirring up Star Wars wank she probably would like to have forgotten about ten years ago. If I make a wayback copy of Sally's post, it's still got her name on it! And now she can't lock it to shut down the wank because the copy is out of her control. And, given that my example is Star Wars, there probably WILL be wank.
Overall, I think editing out the links, and adding some vague context like: "Fan discussion of X topic made me think of Y."
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ITA that including a link to a Wayback or WebCite copy is a bit....iffy, especially if the original post has since been locked, or deleted. There's the "well, you posted it publicly on the internet (dumbass)" type argument, but maybe Sally doesn't want to be part of the meta project, even via a link. Figuring out consent re online spaces is tricky, and it's good to have discussion of it beforehand, I think.
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As it happens, I think that loss of control is one of the worst things about Tumblr. But what corner of the internet are you from where commenting on someone else's posts is bad, adding to a conversation in a way that cannot mischaracterize who you're talking to or about (because anyone reading you can click the link you provided and read for themselves exactly what was said) is wrong, and vagueblogging is evil?
I will however agree that quoting without attribution, with the possible exceptions of "a lot of people said substantially this thing; not sure it's possible to paraphrase all of them without directly quoting any of them" and "I don't want people who read me to go rain shit on this person's head", is unethical.
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I got up to partway through Part 4 (and have vague thoughts of continuing, but Tumblr's interface hasn't gotten easier or more pleasant to deal with), and had been thinking of copying those posts to AO3.
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That said, I don't know as brief review posts that aren't liveblogged are much different other than in style. It's pretty common that people comment on elements of an episode without doing a comprehensive review. (Similarly, a recap is not a transcript but it's also more of a wiki doc).
I guess the answer is that the MMM Challenge is not the arbiter of what AO3 allows, other than sharing what they've made public about it. If you want to check with them and let us know, that would be helpful!
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(I have a running joke that I think Dad Egbert is Loki in disguise. My friends who know canon assure me this is never contradicted by the text.)
I'm comfortable believing it's allowed at AO3; wasn't sure if it's in the spirit of the MMM challenge. I plan on using each "Part" (season, series, whatever) of the original as 1 "story" on AO3, which each post in that Part as a chapter, rather than having eight zillion new meta posts.
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Thank you!
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1) Absolutely. Speaking personally, I have sometimes referenced the person and occasionally their post, or I have simply said "people were discussing" or "someone was saying," often depending on how specifically I am referencing what they said. So if I quoted them in the meta then I'd usually say who it was but if it was a discussion that several people were in on regarding a topic I'd just go with "people were discussing." As it happens, a post I made a few weeks ago was in direct response to someone else's (locked) post, so I am planning to re-edit it to better reference some things without actually linking to their post before I copy it to AO3. If your work was more of a discussion where there wasn't a separate post you made (a chat on Discord, for example) then yes, I'd encourage you to contact the other people. They could even stay anonymous if they wanted to as you could just quote them as "Fan A" "Fan B" etc.
2) Yes, especially if you reworded it a little to make it more about the topic than what you were planning to write. From what AO3 has in their ToS, an extended plot bunny like you're referencing wouldn't be an issue.
3) Yes you could, though perhaps this is a good opportunity to expand on them a little as we'll have a few "new meta" writing challenges next month!
4) You can link to the OP if you want, it's entirely up to you. On my own posts I generally don't bother, but I have always stated the original posting date because this can be relevant since a number of things I've written were episode reviews at the time they first aired. (It also helps me find the original post here on DW should I ever want to look it up). AO3 allows you to set the post to another date and some people do that instead, but I prefer to use the date I'm uploading and just put it in my notes what the original date was. But this is just a personal preference.
5) I would say no, there's no need. See my answer to your first question 🙂
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